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The proposed fence around the golf course

There was a good turn-out of interested homeowners at the Open House last night. We hope you got got most of your questions answered.  We heard some grumbling about there being no presentation about what is going to happen beyond this fence plan.  The committee can appreciate your frustration. But please remember, what we got last night is exactly what the owners said we would get; answers to your questions.

The biggest concern was “what happens to those with a ‘C’ next to their fence?” This is what we took away from the Open House:

Each property owner whose home has a “C” next to it will be contacted by a representative of the owners. The committee presumes this contact will not take place until the pending Conditional Use Permit application is approved by The City. That won’t happen until after the matter is heard and approved by the Planning Commission.

These “C” condition property owners will be advised that the survey indicates that their property encroaches on the golf course and proof of that encroachment will be provided. Owners will not be ordered to correct the encroachment but will be asked (required) to sign a document acknowledging that they are aware that their property is encroaching on the golf course and that they will not hold the owners liable for any damages should any injury take place on the area of encroachment. No commitment to remedial action nor payment of costs will be made by owners for remediation or compensation.

Those in attendance had the opportunity to review aerial photos of the golf course, including close-ups of their home-sites. Each property is identified with a letter designation (A, B, or C).  We have reproduced those photos below.

If you have comments of questions, please convey them by way of the site. If you want to remain anonymous, use the contact form.

Pat Tuohy
Steering Committee Chairman

The Application Notice from the San Ramon Planning Department contains a list of questions and concerns adn missing items in the application submitted by representatives of the property’s owner on October 5, 2018. It is 8 pages long but worth reading.

The site plan and survey are also available.

 

{ 15 comments… add one }
  • Regis December 1, 2018, 2:07 pm

    What happens if Categorized « C » owners aren’t willing to be « forced » to sign?
    Can the golf course survey be questioned by the city? Are we 100% sure the survey is
    Accurate?
    Survey results seem pretty odd is some places. For instance, on the same hole, while all properties are perfectly lined-up, some have been declared « Category A », others « Category C » which does seem to make a lot of sense.
    Can any action be taken to double check their findings?
    Thanks

    • Geoffrey Hochenstein December 3, 2018, 2:24 pm

      You can get your own survey for about $300. GPS equipment that is used to do these surveys are known to have flaws in their accuracy (hint, hint).

  • Brian December 1, 2018, 2:08 pm

    Does anyone know how much space (feet) behind our fences on the golf course belongs to the homeowner?

    The proposal is for the golf course to build a new fence along each backyard fence that lines the golf course?

  • Anon December 1, 2018, 2:28 pm

    The homeowners whose properties reportedly encroach the golf course property may want to research whether the new owner’s claim of encroachment is time-barred by statute.

    Also research ‘adverse possession’.

  • Mike December 1, 2018, 2:41 pm

    https://www.propertymetrics.com/blog/2016/09/07/prescriptive-easements-a-comprehensive-guide/

    Those homes have had fences that have encroached on the golf course for 40-50 years? Read this article. Talk to your title insurance carrier, or a lawyer, before you sign anything.

  • Branson Payne December 1, 2018, 5:36 pm

    I hope the golf course owners finally give up trying to intimidate the home owners and our wonderful city and, instead, spend their time, energy and money making the golf course successful. Installing an ugly fence won’t do it. Replace the rusting-away wrought iron fence with an aluminum one that is oxidized black, now rusting.

  • Brian Rodrigues December 3, 2018, 11:09 am

    First the surveyors did not survey all of the property, but they superimposed our plot plans on an aerial map, and then decided best fit. Tye hen site marked certain points to validate their overlay. Not clear what the margin for error is here. As has been already pointed out, many of these fences have been up for years and under “adverse possession” rules, the new owners may not have any rights to the property they are claiming. So there may be no need to sign a waiver of liability.

  • Mike December 3, 2018, 2:59 pm

    There is no way I would sign that release without discussing with my own attorney and my own survey in hand. Signing that as its worded ‘acknowledges’ the encroachment. I find it very suspicious that every property on Alcosta bordering the golf course is allegedly over the line. At some point someone must have laid out property lines, and distance from the street.

  • Eric December 3, 2018, 3:32 pm

    Thanks to those who attended and voiced their concerns, and thanks for this summary and link to the survey maps. I attended the Stay the Course meetings last year (or the year before? time flies…), but was unable to attend this time. It turns out I may have missed the most consequential meeting.

    I live on Alcosta on hole 11, and almost all properties are higher than the fairway. My fence has started leaning into the course a few years ago, and so I was not surprised when I saw a “C” next to my yard on the survey map. I was already in the process of designing a retaining wall so I can stabilize my yard, this will only accelerate the process. I will not sign anything that can reduce the value of my property, as this document would do.

    Beyond the additional traffic in the area, and the loss of the golf course for the community, the direct impact for homeowners is the reduction in value of our properties. Losing the open space behind my yard, and having a property title with this “cloud” over it (I am referring to the document we would be asked to sign) would both do this.

    Putting pressure and trying to scare individual homeowners is not a big surprise, after the failure of the original plan by Tree City. I have been seeing significantly less traffic on the golf course this summer, so making a case for an unprofitable business does not seem unlikely. Making the course uglier with a fence, and scaring homeowners, are all steps towards the closure and development of the course.

    I am planning on getting a survey of my property, and depending on the result, I will simply remove my fence and proceed with my retaining wall. But given we are dealing with crafty lawyers, I will probably need a lawyer of my own.

    If you know people in these lines of work (land surveyors and real estate attorneys), please share so we can all benefit. If enough people show interest, we could even consider banding together, sharing resources (money and time), etc.

  • Linda Gow December 3, 2018, 4:20 pm

    Thank you for the update and copies of the plans.
    I thought that the presenters at the meeting talked about replacing the failed fence around the course. I am on Thunderbird (B), the fence on that street has many metal pickets that have rusted and are a safety issue for those walking by and the guys mowing the lawn. The plans said existing fence to remain. Do you remember anything said about its replacement?

  • anon December 3, 2018, 4:21 pm

    The Application was addressed to:

    Lee Rosenblatt, CBG

    Who is this person?

  • Brian Rodrigues December 4, 2018, 7:45 am

    For land surveyors try thumbtack .com. I already looked at pricing and will be discussing with my neighbors about joint activity since several of us are listed as C, and my nearest neighbor is an original owner. But I am willing to wait until I see what happens at next planning meeting when they bring the fence back up on the agenda.

  • Sarah Landry December 8, 2018, 8:02 am

    Is there any talk of addressing the community’s concerns with the city? Given that the city must approve or deny the application, it seems like it’s very important for the city to hear the concerns of property owners and take those concerns into account when making their decision.

    Also, does anyone know the likelihood of the city approving the fence application? A six-foot high cyclone fence is very unattractive, and on its face, the course owner’s claim that installing it is being done for the “safety of the community” is dubious. The city should hear how this fence will be a great blight on our neighborhood. And it’s actually just a first step to eventually close the course and negatively impact all our home values and community.

    Could someone please share info as to how we can advocate for our homes and our community with the city? Or is this already being done? Thank you!

  • Charlotte Diers Miller February 18, 2019, 1:28 pm

    Hi, I’m Charlotte Diers Miller. I am a resident of San Ramon. Although I don’t currently live on the San Ramon Golf Course, I have a bit of history to share.

    My parents, Charlie and Ethel Diers, along with my 3 brothers and I, moved into the house at 9405 Olympia Fields Drive on 10/9/65. We were the 1st residents to move into the development. I remember that day vividly as we packed up all our household belongings from our beloved home in Walnut Creek, to move to a bigger house in San Ramon. The lure for my parents was to live in a bigger house backing up to the Golf Course with a pool down the street! While no one in my family actually played golf, the promise of a view of a beautiful golf course and no back-yard neighbors is mentioned in the Fairway Hills brochure, which I still have.

    I remember as a child going to San Ramon with my parents to pick out our model and select our home site. Of course, to a 10-year-old, it was hard to envision that barren back yard, with the ugly cyclone fence was ever going to be as fabulous as our old house in Walnut Creek. But, as many of you know, my parents made it fabulous! My point being, the ugly cyclone fence that surrounded the golf course and the cart pathway, was there prior to the completion of the house.

    Charlie and Ethel are no longer with us and we sold their house to a wonderful family in 2017. Thankfully, 9405 has an “A” designation on the property map. I have no place in this battle except to honor my parents. My parents were constantly making sure that golf course was maintained, and if the weeds got too unruly on the golf course side of the fence, Mom would go over and pull them (or send my brothers). My parent’s goal was always about keeping their home and yard looking beautiful.

    It was despicable when Tree City LLC closed the pool and swim team that my family and so many other families enjoyed since the early 60’s! This tactic to strong arm residents regarding 1965 and older fence lines and plans to add a secondary fence is deplorable! My parents would have been at the front of the line to stop these unscrupulous investors!

    I’m not sure how I can help this cause. I wanted to voice my support and perhaps bring to light the vintage of the current fencing.

    Charlotte Diers Miller

  • Eleezeh Safarians April 5, 2019, 7:57 pm

    I received a letter from the golf course with options for the fence. Has anyone else got a letter? Is anyone surveying their land to make sure the lines are correct.

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